Memorial Day

[Soviet]

Monday is/was Memorial Day here, and since all my other forums are American and posting topics I figured I'd post one here. I hate Memorial Day. Sure, I honor American troops in our Civil War (slavery abolished), WWI (fightable tyranny), and WWII (even though I honor the Russian troops more), but this is ridiculous.

On every single American forum I go on it's people talking like, "Let us praise our fallen brothers in Iraq!" The answer in my head: STFU. Seriously. They are not preserving freedom. They are not promoting peace. They are accomplishing nothing. What happened to 66% of America hating Bush's guts? Sure people are dying over there...but they chose to. They chose to go into the god damn Middle East and fight an un-winnable war using tactics similar to those used by the Brits in the Revolutionary War. They aren't dying for our country, or any other country but Iraq. Now normally I'd say, Iraq is a comrade in need, but in this circumstance there are certain reasons I don't agree.

1. They didn't ask for help
2. We are a fat, dumb, ignorant, self-centered country with our own problems
3. It is killing our economy
4. Wars have been going on in the Middle East for about 10,000 years, and here's a hint. There is a trend. THEY DON'T END!!!
5. Hey guess what guys...WE AREN'T WINNING

Even if there was a draft I still would not honor the men, I would simply feel sorry for them. Same goes for Vietnam, Korea, Gulf War, and every other stupid war America has gotten themselves into since WWII. Rant done.

[Neon]

I feel sorry for our (and America's) soldiers over in there. They don't get the proper media coverage they deserve and they're having a shit time. When was the last time anyone heard anything about Afganistan? And we have soldiers dying everyday there.

I think I remember the US death count for Iraq being something like 15,000. Mental.

[Marshall]

Remind me why there are troops in afganistan again..

Oh actually, remind me why there are troops in Iraq..

Ahhhh, that's correct.. Weapons of Mass Destruction.

They were never found, the countries leader was captured..

.. but yet, they are still there fighting?

Oooooh, that's because people are shooting back at you guys?

Well maybe if you didn't attack their country, they wouldn't attack you.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wait! all the car bombings, and suicide attacks.. yes, a great shame.. it really is.

But a countries problems should be resolved within that nation.

Wow, London getting bombed.. when did that start? when we joined forces with America.

And I'm not blaming the US, I'm just stating the obvious..

Maybe I'm wrong.

[Neon]

I remember (a while back now) a BBC reporter saying something like "it's shocking to see iraqi civillians throwing rocks at British and American soldiers". If someone else's army was in our country and unwanted, I'd be out throwing rocks ;/ I hate western media.

[[SoE]_Zaitsev]

I speak obviously for the Dutch here. Most people ara AGAINST the Dutch being in Afghanistan. I wouldn't want the Dutch to be there, but they are so I rather have them finish their job (Even though I have my doubts that they can actually be completed). I disagree with the media.

One thing was pissing me off. I see frequently in the newspapers that if another soldier dies, there's more talk like: ''Our people are getting killed over there, get them the hell out!'' while they went to join the army themselves (And I did the same with the navy for a while) with the FACT knowing that they will most likely be sent to a country. Let that be Kosovo, Bosnia, Afghanistan or Iraq, doens't matter. They DO know that they will be sent to a country, wether people like it or not, it's their job. They know the chance is high.

Back to the media... They're shouting to get these soldiers back. But if they don't go to other countries what's the point in military ? There's no large scale military operations needed anymore in the Netherlands and I highly doubt war will break out in Europe over the next couple of years.

But what pissed me the most off was the following poll deciding when to bring the people back. One option was with 25 deaths. So 24 deaths is allright, but as soon as #25 dies, it's too much. That's just UNRESPECTFUL if you ask me. 25 people is NOTHING compared to the American losses. Ofcourse, it sucks, but that's WAR.

People WILL die, wether you like it or not.


I still have respect obviously. It's not easy.

Office job ? No way!

[Infinite]

w.e, can't change any1's opinion. ^^

[Drofder2004]

Sadly I think you are looking at this from the wrong direction.

Fact is, whether or not we choose to believe it, terrorism exists. I would prefer to be fighting them in their country than our own. Could you imagine what life would be like if you were under daily threat of car bombings?

What our soldiers do in Iraq is what they are paid to do, they signed up and once signed up they contracted to follow military orders, and the military orders are given by the governments. Whether or not you like Bush does not come down to whether or not to support your troops.

I do not believe in the whole "we should honour our dead", because in reality we should simply honour of soldiers, they are doing the governments dirty work.

Also, do not believe they are "beating us". Remember, the UK press is a bunch of scumbags eager for a story. They will bend the truth to get your money, they do it in everything, politics and sport, no matter what we do, they will find fault.

The day we back out of Iraq, will be the days the paper print "British Soldiers - Cowards"...

[Soviet]

Oh but they are beating us, around each and every corner, literally and metaphorically. They hide among people that look exactly like them, so they hide in plain sight. They can attack from any time at anymore, as they know the city and know how to get places. They have every advantage besides technological, and technology means nothing when you can't find what you are fighting. Fighting against terrorism in terrorism's country is unwinnable. Fighting against terrorism in one's own country is at least plausibly winnable. Terrorism has every advantage, and every country in there is just standing there and letting themselves be pummeled. There is only two solutions to the Middle East.

A: Mass hypnosis
B: Nuke it

Seriously. Anyone who says differently is simply wrong. You can't change these people's beliefs, you can't change their convictions, it is simply impossible. They have believed their beliefs for thousands of years, they are always at war in their own countries, that is all they know. It is like trying to take a machine programmed for one thing, and program it for another. Unless of course you believe in God. But then all hope for logic is already lost.

[Infinite]

We can't change their beliefs, nor can we change urs. ^^

[Soviet]

it isn't my belief, it is my observation of the situation. If you give some logical evidence that points against what I have said, then there is a good chance I would go along with it. However, no one has come up with a logical argument to mine.

[Infinite]

lol, that's about all i have to say about that. besides this, so you don't believe that "they are beating us". You don't believe that "There are* only two solutions to the Middle East.

A: Mass hypnosis
B: Nuke it"

just having fun with your words, xD. I'm not into politics and i prefer to not go into what i think, but it's fun to toy with other people's ideas.

[Soviet]

there is a big difference between belief and observation or opinion. Belief implies backing it with your life, something you stand behind no matter what. An opinion or observation is the thing that you have come to presume is true, although your mind can still be altered to the logic which you have arrived at.

[Soviet]

never mentioned dying for anything, that is stupidity. Similar to people who join the military and are willing to die to defeat terrorism even though they can't. And that, my friends, is a belief of mine. It all comes together

[Infinite]

there is a big difference between belief and observation or opinion. Belief implies backing it with your life, something you stand behind no matter what. An opinion or observation is the thing that you have come to presume is true, although your mind can still be altered to the logic which you have arrived at.

be - lief

1. something believed; an opinion or conviction

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/belief

[Soviet]

Ok, what word do you use to describe something you have logically ascertained to be accurate given your current knowledge? We are debating philosophy, not dictionary.com