mad MAN in Cumbria Uk

[Soviet]

That's on par with saying you don't give a damn about someone that just died of tuberculosis because they coughed on a few other people inadvertently before they died. It sucks that those people died, but he wasn't exactly in a mental state where he could control himself. One of the big issues with the world is people don't expect you to simply overcome a physical disease, yet when it is mental if you don't overcome it your shunned and despised by society because you are weak. If people had taken a more sympathetic attitude to his issues before that he probably never would have ended up in that state. It's society's willful ignorance of mental illnesses that causes things like this to happen.

[Drofder2004]

There are murderers and there are cunts.

When you go out and kill someone with a motive, then that is one thing, but to go out and randomly shoot with the intention of killing these people KNOWING you are going to kill yourself afterwards is a selfish act of nonsense violence and I do not believe there is a motive in the world that would validate an emotional state of this kind.

I couldn't care less about his emotions, there is ALWAYS somebody worse off than you putting up with it, fuck him. I hope he shot himself in such an awkward way that caused him to have to suffer a slow painful death.

[Infinite]

Have you never rage quit a game?
He rage quit life.

That's going in the sig.

[[SoE]_Zaitsev]

This is just fucking retarded. Like all those idiots going rampage on schools...

[Soviet]

This is precisely what I mean, from our perspective it is some stupid thing he did, however maybe he had some sort of chemical balance or buried psychological experience that slowly ate away at his sanity. Not all people are as capable of dealing with mental stress, just like not all people are as capable of dealing with physical stress. If a bus driver is overworked and falls asleep at the wheel, crashing and ultimately killing all 30 people on board, yes it is terrible that it happened. But you don't say "fuck that guy", it was unfortunate circumstances all around and while it is true it could possibly have been avoided, the circumstances of that driver's life didn't permit him to avoid it. People in these type of situations almost never choose to be in them, in fact the typical motive (which I have no reason to think was not his) is an attempt to regain control over your life when you feel helpless. There is nothing more draining of hope and the will to live than feeling helpless and unable to change anything.

[[SoE]_Zaitsev]

This guy choose to be in that situation. He had a gun, and he used that to kill people before ending his own life.

Try saying that stuff to the family of those who died by his hands.

[Soviet]

Good argument I'm sure people who have had a loved one die from cancer feel the same way about the cancer, but that doesn't make it any more voluntary or escapable. It's easy for a person who is mentally healthy to say that they'd never do anything like that because they've never been in that situation, the facts of the matter are very different.

[Drofder2004]

Soiet, we know nothing of this guy, eyt we assume he was more than likely mentally ill... but according to his friends that he had only visited two days before, there was no sign of problem. So he may have been "ill", but he may also (and the chances are jsut as likely) have simply been a cunt.

Some people can't deal with mental stress and some people can. Some people also cannot help the mentality of not caring for another person life and have no regrets shooting them.

You DO NOT have to be mentally ill, suffer from any mental stress or have any problems in your life to one day decide, I am going to go and shoot a town load of people.

---

My second point is as I sorta said before, but those who cannot deal with mental stress are selfish, because there are people suffering far worse than you. Not to mention if you cannot deal with mental stress you should not own a gun >.>

[Soviet]

I'm simply suggesting the other possibility. The fact that people didn't see anything wrong with him only perpetuates the idea of mental instability, the majority of normal suicides are described the same way. If a person is fucked up they will get help, but if a person is as fucked up as that guy might have been, they won't.

I'm not saying he wasn't an asshole or anything, I'm just saying that the potential for my explanation is also very feasible. I'm simply trying to help people understand what exactly mental issues can do to a person, I'm not trying to define why he did what he did based on a news article. I present the opposing perspective not because I believe it, but because no one else either recognizes it or is willing to say it.

[Drofder2004]

I know what you are saying, but I am fed up of this common "diminished responsibility" bullshit that we hear often...
Most mental issues are stimulated and caused by the actions you lead in your own life, and that is why I have a large lack of compassionate reasoning for these people.

[Soviet]

We hear often? All I ever hear is people denying the viability of things like depression, anxiety, paranoia, etc. as actual diseases. It's about as annoying as people thinking that dinosaurs existed 8000 years ago. Yes, there are certain issues with ADD and other similar diseases, but that's simply a problem of misdiagnosis and bad parenting, it doesn't discredit extreme psychological conditions any.

[Drofder2004]

We hear often? All I ever hear is people denying the viability of things like depression, anxiety, paranoia, etc. as actual diseases. It's about as annoying as people thinking that dinosaurs existed 8000 years ago. Yes, there are certain issues with ADD and other similar diseases, but that's simply a problem of misdiagnosis and bad parenting, it doesn't discredit extreme psychological conditions any.

They are not diseases, they are illnesses (or conditions), I believe they exist, but I also believe there are many people who diagnose themselves (which often leads to developing said illness) [for example, feeling sad and making yourself believe you are depressed an lead to depression...] and yes, nearly every case I seem to view lately, the lawyer is always pushing for a lighter sentence due to an illness.


---
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/humber/8691903.stm - May 18
Man Murders pregnant woman, manslaughter grounds of diminished responsibility.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/south_east/8660012.stm - May 4
Man kills pensioner, manslaughter grounds of dminished responsibility.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/nott ... 655378.stm - April 30
Man kills grandfather, manslaughter grounds of dminished responsibility.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/nott ... 655378.stm - April 6
Man murders ex-wife (to be), murder grounds of diminished responsibility and provocation.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/wear/8592667.stm - March 29
Man strangles father, manslaughter grounds of diminished responsibility.

[Soviet]

I completely agree that the concept of mental illnesses is majorly exaggerated, but that doesn't change the fact that they exist. Keeping them out of the courtroom or how one views oneself is one thing, but prejudging a person based on the misunderstandings and manipulations of others is a bit unfair. Regardless of what society does to abuse and redefine the idea of certain illnesses, they can still exist and be a viable cause for said things.

KS, it is true that there are personal choices that lead to these things, but it isn't exactly that simple. One has to find the line between a person making decisions based on hormonal or genetic reasons in comparison to a person actually thinking something out without the influence of malfunctioning internal mental systems. People can't simply control who they are. They can try, but more often than not external (or internal) stimuli will overrule any personal progress due to its inescapably oppressive nature. A person could believe that they are acting with full rationality, when in fact their very basic ability to perceive things rationally might be disrupted by some influence they have no control over.

[Drofder2004]

I would never say mental illness or said conditions do not exist. I know they do, but I also do believe the human capacity to do things that can be seen as insane, while still being totally sane.

I am not a psychologist, nor do I pretend to be, but I honestly do not believe he started his rampage an insane man, he was able to drive to known people with intent of killing them before he went randomly targetting. I would call that sane enough...

[Soviet]

A conscious decision does not mean one reached of his own accord. Insanity comes in a number of ways, so to suggest that since he was methodical and precise there is no possible way he could have done what he did while being insane seems a bit far fetched. I'm not arguing that the point I'm standing up for is the case, I'm simply saying that it is possible that it was the case. There are plenty of examples of 'insane' individuals doing calculating and methodical things where their very basis of reason and judgment was compromised by illness. While there may be a pattern of rational decision making, their basic ability to rationally perceive things as a 'sane' person would has been compromised. Stalin is an excellent example, he killed millions methodically and carefully due to Paranoia. However, if one looks at the things Stalin did besides this he was simply a man devoted to what he felt was a noble cause, and he was extremely beneficial to his country. Where his reason failed is where his paranoia began, in a place where his logic and reasoning capabilities were fundamentally corrupted by mental illness.