Poor, poor old peds :D

[Soviet]

I guarantee if you were in a position like Drofder's you'd either be responding the same way or would have left CJ already. I can hardly stand this place and some members (like Nightmare) hardly even come here anymore because they can't stand the idiocy and betrayal.

For me, with MW2 coming out and the subsequent actions of the community, it has felt like betrayal to a great degree. The few of us that actually boycotted the game have to sit and watch as most of the members of this community fund a greedy company to bring down something we've put many hours into. Now I know the first thing you'll say to that is "we know, we've heard it a million times, we understand, get over it." Honestly, it's not something you get over. The fact is the vast majority of people here don't understand what they did when they bought this game and who they did it to. It's interesting, I always thought I was the one with hardly any principles, yet it appears that in a place like this the word has absolutely no meaning. A mere 3 or 4 of us have to sit here and pointlessly try and explain something that should be common sense over and over. And all this, all that I've just talked about, is just the little bit that drove Drofder over the edge.

Consider the thanks that he gets for the mod. Even with all the demo uploading you have done Zait, you still get a lot of credit and a topic dedicated to the work you do. Every time you upload demos tons of people say thanks and give comments. Yet, for the many years Drofder has worked on his mod. There may be an update but very rarely is it even mentioned in a topic. He also doesn't go on the servers so he has relatively no contact with the community. Imagine doing a job for free, for charity, for a group of people that don't even know you exist. Now imagine them turning around and stabbing you in the back, not only by stealing your work, but also by sabotaging the community you've put dozens of hours into.

Every time you see one of these people whose actions you hate do something you don't like, it is due to MW2. The people you see bitching are the same people who used to bitch to each other on xfire, the only difference is that we've had enough. MW2 pushed us over the edge of silently putting up with the idiocy and plain ignorance of the forum. Perhaps you have a greater tolerance for it, perhaps you haven't noticed, or perhaps you don't care. Whatever the case, we care about the community and have gotten tired of not voicing our opinions about the place we've helped make. If anybody has the right to flame, bash, insult, and degrade members of the forum, it's Drofder.

[Azabael]

I greatly respect drofder for making the mod possible, really. But as you say, he has NO contact with the community. How am I supposed to thank him then? Make a topic every month? And for those who don't even come on these forums, there is no way to thank him for that becasue he's also not present in the servers.
I also dislike people stealing stuff he put a lot of effort in, though. In my view, that is excessive.

I hope this time you don't blame me for giving my opinion on this, although I just have 300 posts, plus minus.

[[SoE]_Zaitsev]

If anybody has the right to flame, bash, insult, and degrade members of the forum, it's Drofder.

NOBODY has the right to insult anyone. Hiding behind a computer and then totally insulting someone is fucking stupid. What if someone you work with has a whole different opinion then you ? Are you going all out, saying he's a fucking cunt and die in a fire ? If you do, then something is completely wrong with you. Although in Drofders case, when someone stealing your job, yes, then I would justify it. But OFTEN on these forums there's no reason for it. And THAT is what pisses me off. You think I like what people do with Drofder his mod ? It's 100% needed for jumping, nobody can deny that. Everybody who uses the CJ MOD APPRECIATE Drofder his work because it is a fantastic mod. Nobody jumps witthout the CJ Mod. Isn't that hint big enough ? His mod is successfull, there's no way to deny that.

Anyway, I ultimately gave in on buying MW2, I was against it, but always and forever having a grudge for that game simply won't work. I didn't flame community members, I simply don't see the point.

Now, as I told you about it before, I would probably have NEVER bought it if I was heavily into modding as most of you guys seem. Maybe I started seeing it long before you guys that hoping for a good Call of Duty doesn't happen anymore (Even though this game is ok, but there are more negative points than positive points) so I am planning to move on to a next series of games. Everything will come to an end. I've put shitloads of hours into CJ, Drofder put shitloads of hours into his CJ mod, but I am pretty sure that all in all I spent most hours working on this site out of everybody (Although I honestly have no clue how designing the site etc works). I spent looking for jumps, making movies, updating the site, getting on the forums and loads more things. But I don't see these years going to waste since I had fun along the years and it has to end some day.

Buying this game leading to the end of PC gaming is bullshit aswell, it just leads to most true PC gamers end of the CoD series. And I for one, am moving on. I moved on from MoH already, and I will move on from CoD. It's that simple.



Maybe I also have it easier than you guys because I play WoW. Many changes to classes. But people cry against the developers because their class gets nerfed (Atleast in their eyes, I always see it as a 'fix') but I don't whine, I deal with it and learn to get used to it. And in 99% of the time I don't have a lot of issues getting used to it.

It all comes down to the simple fact that you either give in, or stop hoping for that one awesome game you are waiting for because it won't come.

There's more games out there. Plenty more.

[Azabael]

Why don't I see you on xfire anymore, zaitsev? Sometimes I want to say something, but I rarely see you.

[Soviet]

To extend your metaphor, if the CEO sold my company to North Korea I would probably tell him to die in a fire as well. There's your metaphorical justification for MW2 flaming.

Also, with both yours and Azabael's posts you miss the point about thanks. Do you think he wants people grovelling at his feet thanking him and making vows of allegiance and love with every step he takes? Well, I'm not sure since I don't know the guy completely, but my guess is no. This isn't a problem that can be remedied by making a topic where everyone says thanks, it's a massive problem that has built up over time. The point is not that people aren't saying "thank you" directly to him, the point is people toss around the mod like it is nothing; they have no idea the work that went into it and they take it for granted. They don't have to personally know the guy who made it to at least express through their actions a bit of respect for it.

That being said, people never actually thanking him directly could still be a valid reason. If I recall correctly (please correct me if I'm wrong Drofder), Drofder used to be readily available on xfire, however, after being constantly pestered with mapping and modding questions, he is hardly ever online anymore. Now, I'm not exactly a readily available person, nor do I have much interaction with the community on the servers, but to this day I still get random people saying thank you for creating svt_stronghold through pm's and xfire. The point is, just a single map in an old game is motivation enough, yet for an expansive and detailed mod throughout many games it isn't. Direct thanks may not be the center of the issue, but it is an issue nonetheless and communication is not a valid rebuttal considering my experiences.

Buying this game leading to the end of PC gaming is bullshit aswell

I've yet to hear a rational reason why that isn't the case and I've seen and presented a number of reasons based on economics, capitalism, society, progressive trends, and the true nature of gaming on various platforms as to why buying MW2 is incredibly detrimental to PC gaming.

[Azabael]

I see your point about the 'thanking' problem, Soviet. And you are right about the fact people shouldn't toss his mod around. That indeed really is ungrateful. But the vast majority has nothing to do with that. For instance, me and Zaitsev have nothing to do with that group. How can his behavious towards us, which is caused by the group we don't belong to, be acceptable? That is not how it works in life. You're not going to mean mean to your mother because women in general do not respect you, for example.

I believe the active people on these forums have nothing to do with disrespecting his mod. So if there should a place where he should feel warm because we all are truly thankful towards him for making the mod, it should be http://www.codjumper.com

[Soviet]

I was actually planning on typing out another long response, but then I realized I'm almost speaking for Drofder and could very well be getting all this wrong, so I'm just going to stop.

[[SoE]_Zaitsev]

Like I said, Drofder his real issue is that people steal his work which is OBVIOUSLY a fucked up thing to do. But that's not what all this bullshitting is about. The real bullshit is (In some of your eyes) people who buy MW2. Now a while ago I already made a post about it that not everybody plays the same as you. Some people just play a game in a while (My clan is one of them) and this game is not suitable for the hardcore (It being competetive gaming or mapping/modding).

It's a console port, which is damn obvious. I know why I bought the game. Even if loads of people stayed loyal to the petition (It was about putting in Dedicated Servers, even the petition failing, people are still allowed to buy the game because that's not what the petition was for) it would simply mean they will make another console game (Because that's what MW3 will be). You guys want things to change, but that simply won't happen.

This company fucked the PC community over big time. And they will do it again next game.

So I'm going to hopefully play another game competetively while some of you can keep on hammering MW2 and even MW3 but by then, I've already found a new game.

[Soviet]

This company fucked the PC community over big time. And they will do it again next game.

Because people didn't listen and bought MW2. The issue is rising out of people plainly ignoring us then later gasping, "oh wow, this game is bad!" If people had listened and not bought the game, not only would they have not wasted their money but IW would have had a few hundred less dollars. And yes, that may not mean a lot but as a whole it would if more communities had done it. It's the traditional argument of one vote not counting when it is possible it could have.

Really, though, just ignore my posts. I spoke Drofder's mind in a discussion I wasn't fully versed in when I didn't even know Drofder's mind.

[Drofder2004]

Long post shortened down.

This has nothing to do with:
- MW2
- CJ Mod
- Appraisal and feedback

The above are a few of the reasons why I slowly started to care less for the forums but the reason this thread spiralled is simply due to a comment I found pathetic and unjust. For some reason, we all seemed to happily accepted Zaitsevs idea of me posting a similar opinion to someone else as something that is not welcome to these forums?

I may have gone a little OTT with my post, but the post was meant in jest, yet Zait still managed to question why I posted what I did. Maybe it was a lack of understanding of my humour and sarcasm, but the reply back was for me to stop being an "ass".

but they just replied to the video which was pretty epic.

Yet, all I did was just reply to the video, which was pretty epic.

Am I the only one who see his response as unjust in the first place, or was I born feet first. -.-

[Innkeeper]

If you guys are having a problem with eachother, why are you dragging it out on a public forum? Use your team forum or xfire, members of the SAME team shouldn't be publicly feuding in front of a community they BOTH helped create.

I do agree with zait's point however that even the moderators have no right to be flaming members, no matter how stupid their actions. If we want these kinds of harsh and uncalled for attacks to stop, it will have to begin at the top, as the moderators seem to be in a downward spiral of flaming and hate.

[Infinite]

Drofder's*

NOT

Drofder his.

Please learn from mistakes

Wanted to point it out, but thought it would seem a bit of a combo breaker :S.

I do agree with zait's point however that even the moderators have no right to be flaming members, no matter how stupid their actions. If we want these kinds of harsh and uncalled for attacks to stop, it will have to begin at the top, as the moderators seem to be in a downward spiral of flaming and hate.

They have a right to flame people. Banning, temp banning, locking topics, and generally fucking them over is also fair game. It's (basically) their forum. They can do what they want.

Long post shortened down.

This has nothing to do with:
- MW2
- CJ Mod
- Appraisal and feedback

The above are a few of the reasons why I slowly started to care less for the forums but the reason this thread spiralled is simply due to a comment I found pathetic and unjust. For some reason, we all seemed to happily accepted Zaitsevs idea of me posting a similar opinion to someone else as something that is not welcome to these forums?

I may have gone a little OTT with my post, but the post was meant in jest, yet Zait still managed to question why I posted what I did. Maybe it was a lack of understanding of my humour and sarcasm, but the reply back was for me to stop being an "ass".

but they just replied to the video which was pretty epic.

Yet, all I did was just reply to the video, which was pretty epic.

Am I the only one who see his response as unjust in the first place, or was I born feet first. -.-

I agree. (Thanks for the CJ mod in all CoD games of which you have created it for!)

[Soviet]

Infinite has a point. We have the right to flame members, although we shouldn't. Interestingly, if you go on some other forums you'll find that we're actually not that bad. Most moderators will ban people with low post counts if they look at them the wrong way.

It is true we've gotten worse, and I suppose that does need to stop. I will support that movement as long as it does not impede on me flaming MW2 supporters.

[Infinite]

Infinite has a point. We have the right to flame members, although we shouldn't. Interestingly, if you go on some other forums you'll find that we're actually not that bad. Most moderators will ban people with low post counts if they look at them the wrong way.

It is true we've gotten worse, and I suppose that does need to stop. I will support that movement as long as it does not impede on me flaming MW2 supporters.

I've been on other forums which give you infractions for asking dumb questions, and 2-3 infractions = temp/perm ban :S.

[Azabael]

It is true we've gotten worse, and I suppose that does need to stop. I will support that movement as long as it does not impede on me flaming MW2 supporters.

I think that's a wise decision for the sake of our beloved forums.