What's your opinion?

[helium]

First of all, this is a pretty serious topic so don't bother reading right yet if you're not in the mood for being serious

I'm making a pretty random topic, this after seeing a documentary about marijuana called "The Union". Before I start typing anything I want to HIGHLY RECOMMEND YOU TO WATCH IT

I've watched many documentaries about our country's disastrous drug war, and about marijuana specifically, and this one is easily the best. Fact-based, extremely informative, high production value, great interviews, entertaining presentation; nothing was missed here.

The film certainly is not ambivalent about our current marijuana policies; the message is clear that drastic changes are called-for. However, it does not present this case dogmatically or condescendingly. Also, this piece is not simply a case against the drug war. Around halfway into the film, the focus narrows down onto the incredibly huge illicit marijuana business in British Columbia. In fact, the movie's title refers to an informal name used to identify the various industries and individuals involved, either knowingly or unknowingly, in the marijuana business in BC. Very enlightening stuff that I was largely unaware of, even with the amount of interest I have in the topic.

The only downside is the relative lack of exposure this film has had; I had never even heard of it until very recently, even though it was released in 2007. However, it is available on Netflix (both on disc and instant streaming), and hopefully people will slowly discover this hidden masterpiece. Highly recommended.

What are your guys views on marijuana? I would appreciate if you didn't reply with just a few words like "Pot is awesome" or "pot gives you aids" etc, try to give your opinion about the whole situation, and if you haven't watched The Union you will probably not know too much about the situation and you will post something useless

PS: I've always had a pretty neutral opinion about weed, but drugs such as cocaine etc are unacceptable and will always be unacceptable in my opinion. Recently I changed my opinion about weed due to some research and actually getting some facts about it, and now that I've seen this documentary it's absolutely extremely amazingly absurd how cannabis hasn't been legalized.

[[SoE]_Zaitsev]

Well I haven't seen it but my opinion about drugs is as follows:

If you take drugs and it affects people around you or yourself endangering others then it shouldn't be legal. It's like alcohol, 2 drinks here and you're allowed to stay behind the wheel.

If you take it and there's no risk to others, then I don't really see the problem.

I'm all like, fuck yourself up with whatever it is, but don't endanger others since they haven't asked for it. Applies to everything btw, not just drugs.

[Soviet]

Pretty much what Zait said. Although, I think if any drug should be banned it should be tobacco products. They don't provide any real high other than the relief from craving the nicotine and they are far worse for you than things like marijuana. It's completely idiotic imo to smoke/do and tobacco product.

[Infinite]

Marijuana = ok (I don't personally do it, but I don't see any problem with it). Most other serious drugs such as cocaine, heroin, etc = not ok.

Basically my views on it :s.

I'll watch the video later and I might respond again, but I don't feel like going into much detail about the subject right now.

[Drofder2004]

No matter what people say, Marijuana changes lives, and in no way is it a good thing.

I have first hand experience of the way it changes people around you, I have never and never will touch the drug (or pretty much any other drug). I work with someone who had a drug habit for about 12 years, spending between £50-£100 a week progressively.

Your body responds to the drug, you start off with the mild forms and eventually you adapt and it no longer gives you a high, so you go to slightly more potent drugs in the same range and eventually you end up on the high potent "skunk" forms. The drug makes you extremely paranoid and it severly effects your motivation, in both physical and mental ways.
Giving someone a puzzle to solve while on marijuana and then on a sober state will provide obvious results to the speed of the brain. If you are affected while doing simple puzzle skills, then your way of thinking in real life situations will change.

The drugs long term also can make you extremely ill, most people use standard cigarettes which obviously are bad for you and those who use standard tobacco (or nothing at all) suffer from lesser conditions, but eventually the lungs and heart are affected. The drug gives the user an increased rate of anxiety, couple that with paranoia and this leads to increased heart rates and this obviously leads to potential heart failures.

Just because a drug has no recorded fatality rate, does not mean it is not linked to deaths, accidents caused by the user being on a drug does not go down as a fatality caused by the drug, but as an accident. It is false claims like those that say there are no deaths caused by it are misleading...

BUT, I also live in the modern world and I ma surrounded by drug users, mostly low class but also several high class drugs, I could name double fingers, but I am willing to accept that what they choose to do in their lives is none of my business and I would only get involved if they were direct family.

I always allow those to live their life the way they choose because I would not want them questioning my way of living. Treat people the way you would want to be treated I believe is the saying.

[Infinite]

No matter what people say, Marijuana changes lives, and in no way is it a good thing.

I have first hand experience of the way it changes people around you, I have never and never will touch the drug (or pretty much any other drug). I work with someone who had a drug habit for about 12 years, spending between £50-£100 a week progressively.

Your body responds to the drug, you start off with the mild forms and eventually you adapt and it no longer gives you a high, so you go to slightly more potent drugs in the same range and eventually you end up on the high potent "skunk" forms. The drug makes you extremely paranoid and it severly effects your motivation, in both physical and mental ways.
Giving someone a puzzle to solve while on marijuana and then on a sober state will provide obvious results to the speed of the brain. If you are affected while doing simple puzzle skills, then your way of thinking in real life situations will change.

The drugs long term also can make you extremely ill, most people use standard cigarettes which obviously are bad for you and those who use standard tobacco (or nothing at all) suffer from lesser conditions, but eventually the lungs and heart are affected. The drug gives the user an increased rate of anxiety, couple that with paranoia and this leads to increased heart rates and this obviously leads to potential heart failures.

Just because a drug has no recorded fatality rate, does not mean it is not linked to deaths, accidents caused by the user being on a drug does not go down as a fatality caused by the drug, but as an accident. It is false claims like those that say there are no deaths caused by it are misleading...

BUT, I also live in the modern world and I ma surrounded by drug users, mostly low class but also several high class drugs, I could name double fingers, but I am willing to accept that what they choose to do in their lives is none of my business and I would only get involved if they were direct family.

I always allow those to live their life the way they choose because I would not want them questioning my way of living. Treat people the way you would want to be treated I believe is the saying.

noted.

[helium]

Thanks for your opinions guys. I think that you are very wrong Drofder but I am not going to make a 5000 word post, but if you just watch the documentary you will see that what you just wrote is a lie.

The typical argument is that "you start off with pot, then you go on the bigger drugs..." and that's just f'in stupid.. That's like saying that you start off with light drinks such as milk but then go on to the heavier drinks such as alcohol. It does not make sense.

The plant that marijuana is made of can be used for so many other things; food, textile, bio-gas etc. In fact, this would be one of the most effective fuel to use for our future cars.

The drug doesn't make you paranoid, lol. I know a lot of people who smoke pot frequently but they are not affected in any way at all, they are just happier

It is proven that your concentration ability increases when high on weed, ie you will drive better etc. Okay, obviously there are some deaths linked to weed. There has to be.

But try to compare with the 10 million deaths caused by alcohol, tobacco, medicines etc with weed, that has a record of zero deaths in human history.

Marijuana is great for medicinal purposes, but since it's so easy to manufacture, the government would lose so much money in medicines that they just have to keep the drug illegal.

Just watch the damn documentary.

[Infinite]

government would lose so much money in medicines that they just have to keep the drug illegal.

CONSPIRACYYYYYYYYYY.

[Infinite]

next you will be denying the holocaust.

[helium]

Thanks for your opinions guys. I think that you are very wrong Drofder but I am not going to make a 5000 word post, but if you just watch the documentary you will see that what you just wrote is a lie.

The typical argument is that "you start off with pot, then you go on the bigger drugs..." and that's just f'in stupid.. That's like saying that you start off with light drinks such as milk but then go on to the heavier drinks such as alcohol. It does not make sense.

The plant that marijuana is made of can be used for so many other things; food, textile, bio-gas etc. In fact, this would be one of the most effective fuel to use for our future cars.

The drug doesn't make you paranoid, lol. I know a lot of people who smoke pot frequently but they are not affected in any way at all, they are just happier

It is proven that your concentration ability increases when high on weed, ie you will drive better etc. Okay, obviously there are some deaths linked to weed. There has to be.

But try to compare with the 10 million deaths caused by alcohol, tobacco, medicines etc with weed, that has a record of zero deaths in human history.

Marijuana is great for medicinal purposes, but since it's so easy to manufacture, the government would lose so much money in medicines that they just have to keep the drug illegal.

Just watch the damn documentary.

next you will be denying the holocaust.

You are ignorant. This is also a common "comeback" from insecure people who probably know about the fact that marijuana isn't "bad" for you. It's bad in some ways, for example you may get calm and concentrated, but it's nowhere near what drugs such as cigarettes and alcohol does to your mind and your body.

[Drofder2004]

The typical argument is that "you start off with pot, then you go on the bigger drugs..." and that's just f'in stupid.. That's like saying that you start off with light drinks such as milk but then go on to the heavier drinks such as alcohol. It does not make sense.

The drug doesn't make you paranoid, lol.

It is proven that your concentration ability increases when high on weed.

So what you watched on your PC is more true than my personal life experience?
I am not giving an opinion, I am giving you raw fact of what I have seen and I also have constant

The argument you stated is actually very true, just because you have not seen this happen does not mean it is not true.
How many cocaine addicts do you know? How many heroin addicts have you spoke to?

Your bodies DO become immune to it, they resist the natural high you receive. The same affect is with alcohol, those who never drink have a low resistance to becoming 'drunk' (also affected by weight and other physical attributes), but those who drink more regular will have higher resistances and will require more alcohol to suffer the conditions you get while intoxicated.

The reason you move on to new or harder drugs is not because of WHAT you smoke its about availability. If you are a smoker of a drug and do it for the "high" but are losing the buzz you normally get, it is common that you try harder forms, marijuana becomes skunk or similar potent drugs. I am not suggested you smoke weed and the next day you are shooting up with dirty syringes...

Documentaries are VERY biased. I could make Stephen Hawking look like the most evil person in the world with a camera and a little prime editing. Just because you "saw it in a documentary" does not make it true.

I would love to see the factual experiment documents that state you become a better driver while under the influence. If it is infact true, I will start selling it to my customers as I work in the driving industry.

for your documentary, I provide a counter argument in the form of MEDICAL EXAMINATIONS:-
http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/Mis ... ot78_1.htm

Code: Select all

CONCLUSIONS

The major conclusions from the present program are summarized as follows:

* Current users of marijuana prefer THC doses of about 300 ug/kg to achieve their desired "high".

* It is possible to safely study the effects of marijuana on driving on highways or city streets in the presence of other traffic.

* Marijuana smoking impairs fundamental road tracking ability with the degree if impairment increasing as a function of the consumed THC dose.

* Marijuana smoking which delivers THC up to a 300 ug/kg dose slightly impairs the ability to maintain a constant headway while following another car.

* A low THC dose (100 ug/kg) does not impair driving ability in urban traffic to the same extent as a blood alcohol concentration (BAC) of 0.04g%.

* Drivers under the influence of marijuana tend to over-estimate the adverse effects of the drug on their driving quality and compensate when they can; e.g. by increasing effort to accomplish the task, increasing headway or slowing down, or a combination of these.

* Drivers under the influence of alcohol tend to under-estimate the adverse effects of the drug on their driving quality and do not invest compensatory effort.

* The maximum road tracking impairment after the highest THC dose (300 ug/kg) was within a range of effects produced by many commonly used medicinal drugs and less than that associated with a blood alcohol concentration (BAC) of 0.08g% in previous studies employing the same test.

* It is not possible to conclude anything about a driver's impairment on the basis of his/her plasma concentrations of THC and THC-COOH determined in a single sample.

Liar, or just not gullible? I leave that to your OPINION.

As for the government, the reason they do not legalise it for personal use is because it is a medicinal herb. Why don't we legalise all medicinal drugs and watch the world kill themselves on legal highs?

I didn't state that marijuana is worse than alcohol, alcohol IS worse but cannot be made illegal simply because the amount of money the governments make on taxes and the amount of people 'addicted' is too high of an amount to now control.

[helium]

The typical argument is that "you start off with pot, then you go on the bigger drugs..." and that's just f'in stupid.. That's like saying that you start off with light drinks such as milk but then go on to the heavier drinks such as alcohol. It does not make sense.

The drug doesn't make you paranoid, lol.

It is proven that your concentration ability increases when high on weed.

So what you watched on your PC is more true than my personal life experience?
I am not giving an opinion, I am giving you raw fact of what I have seen and I also have constant

The argument you stated is actually very true, just because you have not seen this happen does not mean it is not true.
How many cocaine addicts do you know? How many heroin addicts have you spoke to?

Your bodies DO become immune to it, they resist the natural high you receive. The same affect is with alcohol, those who never drink have a low resistance to becoming 'drunk' (also affected by weight and other physical attributes), but those who drink more regular will have higher resistances and will require more alcohol to suffer the conditions you get while intoxicated.

The reason you move on to new or harder drugs is not because of WHAT you smoke its about availability. If you are a smoker of a drug and do it for the "high" but are losing the buzz you normally get, it is common that you try harder forms, marijuana becomes skunk or similar potent drugs. I am not suggested you smoke weed and the next day you are shooting up with dirty syringes...

Documentaries are VERY biased. I could make Stephen Hawking look like the most evil person in the world with a camera and a little prime editing. Just because you "saw it in a documentary" does not make it true.

I would love to see the factual experiment documents that state you become a better driver while under the influence. If it is infact true, I will start selling it to my customers as I work in the driving industry.

for your documentary, I provide a counter argument in the form of MEDICAL EXAMINATIONS:-
http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/Mis ... ot78_1.htm

Code: Select all

CONCLUSIONS

The major conclusions from the present program are summarized as follows:

* Current users of marijuana prefer THC doses of about 300 ug/kg to achieve their desired "high".

* It is possible to safely study the effects of marijuana on driving on highways or city streets in the presence of other traffic.

* Marijuana smoking impairs fundamental road tracking ability with the degree if impairment increasing as a function of the consumed THC dose.

* Marijuana smoking which delivers THC up to a 300 ug/kg dose slightly impairs the ability to maintain a constant headway while following another car.

* A low THC dose (100 ug/kg) does not impair driving ability in urban traffic to the same extent as a blood alcohol concentration (BAC) of 0.04g%.

* Drivers under the influence of marijuana tend to over-estimate the adverse effects of the drug on their driving quality and compensate when they can; e.g. by increasing effort to accomplish the task, increasing headway or slowing down, or a combination of these.

* Drivers under the influence of alcohol tend to under-estimate the adverse effects of the drug on their driving quality and do not invest compensatory effort.

* The maximum road tracking impairment after the highest THC dose (300 ug/kg) was within a range of effects produced by many commonly used medicinal drugs and less than that associated with a blood alcohol concentration (BAC) of 0.08g% in previous studies employing the same test.

* It is not possible to conclude anything about a driver's impairment on the basis of his/her plasma concentrations of THC and THC-COOH determined in a single sample.

Liar, or just not gullible? I leave that to your OPINION.

As for the government, the reason they do not legalise it for personal use is because it is a medicinal herb. Why don't we legalise all medicinal drugs and watch the world kill themselves on legal highs?

I didn't state that marijuana is worse than alcohol, alcohol IS worse but cannot be made illegal simply because the amount of money the governments make on taxes and the amount of people 'addicted' is too high of an amount to now control.

I was hoping I would not have to get my personal life involved in this argument, and I will not go into it much, but let me just tell you that I know several people that use cocaine and heroin. I have taken distance from them since I find those drugs incredibly filthy and useless. One of them actually started off with smoking marijuana, but you can't just go around and say that it was the only reason they went to heavier drugs. He had a lot of problems in his life and I guess he took the first drug that he could get. In this case it was marijuana.

I was against the legalization of marijuana 2 years ago, and I thought that marijuana smokers were "filthy" and not like the rest of us "normal" people. This was due to the bullshit that the society (my mother, school) has fed me. Recently I found out that so many people that I know use marijuana, and I was in shock because they were nothing like any other drug user so I asked them why do you take drugs? They just kind of laughed and said that they didn't really consider it a drug. After that my interest has gone up a lot and I am very fascinated about the argument of weed and at this state I am so confused and shocked to why it is not legalized.

Just to let you know, the documentary isn't about legalizing marijuana, it gives you all types of facts about it, good and bad.

I do not have any types of documents that prove that marijuana makes you drive better, but I am pretty sure you knew I wouldn't have them anyway. Thought I do have another documentary where a brittish mother of 3 makes a documentary of how her life is affected when she smokes weed daily. Just to give you a fast conclusion she lived just as she did when she was off-weed and people didn't even know she was high. Her concentration ability was a lot higher, but the bad thing was that she thought her job was boring so she was mostly bored at work. She also did driving tests when she was high on weed and when she wasn't. Her reactions were pretty much the same, but her concentration ability was a lot higher and she was driving a lot more careful. The typical mistake that people make is to believe that weed makes you laugh 24/7 etc, and it's not like that really. It just makes you enjoy stuff more. Music, food, everything. Weed makes you serious for the most of the time

I have tried smoking weed and it was pretty nice, but it's just not my thing so I decided not to smoke it again, but for those that do smoke it and they do like it, why should someone stop them? It's their damn lives and weed doesn't make you do crazy things and it's not even unhealthy.

You mentioned that if you legalize marijuana for medicinal purposes you might as well legalize all medicinal herbs... Why would you do that? That was a pretty unnecessary sentence and it doesn't make sense to me...

I understand your view about this and I respect your opinions, obviously. If I didn't see that documentary I would probably even agree with you now, because I would have thought that it's a killerdrug etc cos my society tells me all that shit. I am not saying that you don't know shit about marijuana, I am pretty sure you do since you base your opinions about facts and experience, but I really do advise you to check that documentary out, I am almost sure you will change your view about it somehow...

Peace

[Soviet]

I have taken distance from them since I find those drugs incredibly filthy and useless.

All drugs are useless (recreationally speaking). People should be free to do what they want, but resorting to drugs will not make your life any better and will typically make it worse. Drugs are a resort for people who can't handle their depression or the bad things in their life well. I take pride in the fact that I have had many opportunities to do drugs but have refused because I'd rather solve my depression through logical thought or old fashioned talking it out with a friend.

[helium]

Drugs isn't really about depression, mostly.

The reason I will never ever go anywhere near cocaine etc is because I know it will fuck you up. You do fucked up things and you will fuck yourself up, and in worst cases die. If cocaine was absolutely harmless and could be bought from the grocerystore I would most likely try it out.

Another reason to why I would never do any heavy drugs is because you can get addicted to them. You can get "addicted" to marijuana, but not to any of the substances, but to the nice feeling of it. Just like you can get "addicted" to candy.

[Drofder2004]

You obviously don't respect my opinion as you flatout called me a liar?

I just watched half of the documentary, the first hour and I just heard a lot of rambling for the most part followed by a lot of pointless discussion on growing the drug. The first hour consisted of a lot of pre-dated material. The experiments they quoted were top of the range quality at the time, you cannot scrutinise what they thought then because of a lack of innovative technology and research. Other aspects were based on the change in laws, but as knowledge changes so will the laws.

After watching that documentary I have no different view. Most of what they talk about is common knowledge.

I will struggle to see a good view for marijuana, but I also struggle to see good views for alcohol and cigarettes. So don't just think I look at this as illegal and therefore think it is bad, I would love to see a world without these addictions.

Alcohol and marijuana has ruined lives close to me and my view point on the drug and any legalisation of the drug will never change. I would suggest you base your opinions on what you see in front of you and steer away from biased documentaries that base their material on a one-sided argument.

I would also suggest not simply avoiding those who take drugs, because you will find many are trapped in to these addictions and they are hard to break. Marijuana however is not as addictive, which is why I have seen many people distance themselves from using the drug for long terms without going back. Although it is becoming common knowledge that plants are sprayed with a small amount of addictive drugs (i.e liquid meth) to cause addiction in users.

I talked about this to my mate the other day, and we looked back at his 'habits' and realised that over the course of ten years of doing drugs, he had spent up to £44000 on just drugs [not including the cigarettes or alcohol]. An average of £85 a week.
If you can rationalise that amount of money jsut so you can get a couple of 'highs' a week, then you need to reconsider you outlook on life.